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Online Church - For or Against
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| Kaisa | Date: Tuesday, 12.10.2010, 18:59 | Message # 46 |
 Student
Group: Users
Messages: 17
Status: Offline
| lovefootball), Asya, I agree with you too. Of course, online church has some advantages but it's really hard to accept such kind of church right now.
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| Luck | Date: Wednesday, 13.10.2010, 10:30 | Message # 47 |
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Union organizer
Group: Friends
Messages: 172
Status: Offline
| I think you're right, we probably don't have enough knowledge to judge whether online-church is good or not. And maybe to make a right decision we just should visit it, and somehow compare these two "types of churches". I've just explored the first site that you gave as an example.. Well what can I say? My first feeling was..well..like, you know sometimes when you walk down the street, there are people who give you different booklets or just cards to advertise a restaurant or a cinema or a new shopping-centre and so on. But there are also people who give you small books about religion.. about Christianity and some other things. They say that if we read the book, we will understand how to live in a "right" way, how to get God's divine grace. And the site reminds me of those books. It's organized well, there is a lot of useful information there. But I never even take these books, and I suppose I will never use the Internet to confess as well. It's a very personal thing, but I believe that first of all we should learn to believe in God inside ourselves, but not to make "fuss" of it. And then it will be up to everybody to decide where to pray: either in "ordinary" church, or in online church, or at home, or somewhere else.
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| Former-Teacher | Date: Saturday, 16.10.2010, 09:52 | Message # 48 |
 Dean
Group: Admins
Messages: 504
Status: Offline
| Quote (Luck) But I never even take these books, and I suppose I will never use the Internet to confess as well. It's a very personal thing, but I believe that first of all we should learn to believe in God inside ourselves, but not to make "fuss" of it.
So much want to agree with you, dear Luck, but no will again argue to make your brains church. Faith is about believing in simple truths like do not kill, do not show aggression, do not steal, avoid gluttoney. We are safe when we follow these simple principles. But the belief is also grounded on man's first sin, his penitence for sins and faults, his salvation by the Lord, his love of Chirst. When you talk of your comparisons, things are easy to get in but you're talking like a very good atheist, a kind and well-educated free-thinker. Have you ever thought that Christianity is a really materialistic religion. When you go to Church, you go to him. When you go to Internet Church for religious needs, you go to him. When you silently stand in front of the iconostasis in a real church, you converse spiritually with the lord and seek his care and wisdom. When you push the keyboard buttons to converse with the Lord in an online church, you use other codes to approach his kingdom, to seek his care, his wisdom, his support.
You said you went to that Internet Church. Have you left a message there?
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| Former-Teacher | Date: Wednesday, 20.10.2010, 13:42 | Message # 49 |
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Dean
Group: Admins
Messages: 504
Status: Offline
| I will of course argue again. Why should you compare theatre and Internet-based theatre. These are different things existing in their own right but having certain things in common. It's about the message - artistic representation of reality. The same with the Earthly Church and the Virtual Church - a religious representation of reality. The Bible is an enormous hypertextual message with multitudes of references and cross-references, multi-metaphors and hyper-metaphors, concepts and meta-concepts. I am not saying that my viewpoint is right or wrong. I haven't actually expressed it yet. I wonder why Asya and some others are defending their visions and judgement as if somebody were trying to fight them. Do you believe in GOD? Do you need any form of material or virtual base to practise your belief? After the second coming of Christ, will another new testament appear? Is it possible that it will be called 'Cyber Gospel'? Do you know any church ritual that cannot be done in Cyberchurch?
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| lovefootball) | Date: Wednesday, 20.10.2010, 21:32 | Message # 50 |
 Dean
Group: Users
Messages: 662
Status: Offline
| I think,none can be done in the proper sense of the word.
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| Former-Teacher | Date: Thursday, 21.10.2010, 10:50 | Message # 51 |
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Dean
Group: Admins
Messages: 504
Status: Offline
| lovefootball), it will really be valuable for all of us if you made a short list of major church rituals in Russian and English and post it here? E.g., baptizing - крещение This will help us all to discuss these things in more detail. Another thing - it's so funny to see such little sentences.
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| Neriel | Date: Thursday, 21.10.2010, 13:30 | Message # 52 |
 Student
Group: Friends
Messages: 2
Status: Offline
| I can't say I believe in God as it is. I was christened only 3 years ago, so I wasn't brought up according to some Christian traditions. My parents are atheists. Still, I have my own opinion. I consider that we have some superior power above all of us somewhere that unfluences our lives from time to time. In every religion there was and there is one central god. It is for some particular reason, I think.
Concerning the topic being discussed here, I think that there cannot be an online church. In every normal church there is some special energy, some atmoshere, that can be achieved at home and online. I had been in three different churches: our Russian one, Catholic and Protestant churches. All of them differ greatly. For example, in every Catholic church you sit and listen to the sermon, you sing hymns, etc. It's very peaceful there and it is really possible to relax and clean yourself there. In our church I feel much tension. It's not much light there and the colour is usually gold and yellow. The pressure of something, maybe your sins, is notable. As for me, I feel very miserable and unhappy there, though it is a very beautiful place. Also I don't like the idea that you are allowed to speak to the God only at church. In this aspect I like the Mormons' way of thinking. The God is always with you and you can speak and pray wherever you want. They can organize a church even in a small room, and it will be fantastic. I spent 3 years with them in our city. They are all very nice and kind. And their religion, though weird in origin, is the best I know. To my mind, the meetings only can be arranged by the means of the Internet, nothing more, especially in Russia. Our religion and churches are "dying out"....
ネリエル
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| lovefootball) | Date: Thursday, 21.10.2010, 20:49 | Message # 53 |
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Dean
Group: Users
Messages: 662
Status: Offline
| Well, we have a great variety of rituals, for example,blessing of the water (освящение воды),sacred procession (крестный ход),unction (помазание),confession (исповедь),wedding ceremony (венчание),Eucharist (причащение).
So, do you think it's possible to do any of them online?
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| Nekavaen | Date: Thursday, 21.10.2010, 21:44 | Message # 54 |
 Head teacher
Group: Users
Messages: 340
Status: Offline
| Somehow confessions and wedding ceremonies can be organized online. But blessing of the water... Well, I think that Lovefootball's question is very reasonable indeed!
And what about baptism (крещение)? It's also a water-related religious practice that is hardly possible to be done on the Internet... Well, I'm starting to think that online churches will never become a tantamount replacement for real ones.
It may happen only if we invent a new form of cyber religion and get rid of some ancient traditions that have been an essential part of our culture and spiritual life for centuries.
It is not human to be without shame and without desire. (Ursula K. Le Guin)
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| Neriel | Date: Thursday, 21.10.2010, 21:48 | Message # 55 |
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Student
Group: Friends
Messages: 2
Status: Offline
| the world will go to ruins, if we are able to get the blessing water by the Internet. It's really easier to create a new online religion then. To my mind, it is a great nonsense and breaking of all the traditions.
ネリエル
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| Rina | Date: Thursday, 21.10.2010, 22:16 | Message # 56 |
 Union committee president
Group: Friends
Messages: 208
Status: Offline
| To be honest, I didn't want to post here any comments but as far as I'm forced to do it, let it be. I'll just try not to be too sceptical 
I've never confessed, I've never talked to a priest, I've never prayed in the church and I've never had any desire to do it. I do distinguish among concepts “faith” and “religion”. I have certain prejudice against church. But nevertheless I'll try to look at the problem of on-line church from objective, unprejudiced point of view.
First let's mention some negative features. Walls, smell, feelings. It has been already discussed that the Internet can't create such breathtaking atmosphere, at least the Internet we have nowadays. May be some years later it will be possible to transmit smells on-line, but today's visitor of on-line church has no chance to enjoy this mysterious mix of smells of labdanum and burning candles. Looking at the icons, listening to the church chorus, standing in this peaceful place people experience such an overwhelming feeling, which can't be substituted by any on-line community. One more negative feature. When we speak about on-line communication, we do accept that it differs from authentic communication when we communicate face to face. So, everybody understands that these two ways of communication can't substitute each other, they can only supplement each other. The same is about on-line church. It can't exist without the real one, because it lacks certain indispensable features only real church possesses.
But from another point of view, cyberchurch has its own advantages. As it has been mentioned above, it gives all people a unique opportunity to “visit church” any time they want to or feel necessity to do it. It can be of great importance for those who can't go to real church because of this or that reason – they are ill or too busy, etc. In our time of permanent lack of time it's the only one way out for many believers. More than that all modern technologies are steps forward. We can't ignore any novelties. Time passes by and they become inseparable from our life. Who knows, may be some decades later on-line church will be as familiar to everybody as a real one and even more popular?
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| lovefootball) | Date: Friday, 22.10.2010, 21:06 | Message # 57 |
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Dean
Group: Users
Messages: 662
Status: Offline
| H'm, it may really be popular but among teenagers only, I guess. I'm afraid, they may use it just for fun and that won't do much good. And how could we forget about hackers, viruses and other 'delights' of the Internet!)
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| Former-Teacher | Date: Saturday, 23.10.2010, 09:56 | Message # 58 |
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Dean
Group: Admins
Messages: 504
Status: Offline
| The same 'delights' exist in real life as well. There is a church near our Uni. I sometimes go there during the day. It is usually open wide for anybody to come in. Buy a candle, put it on the candle-bar, sit or walk around looking at the icons. A few days ago I went there and discovered that the door was locked. I asked and was explained that somebody had stolen money and some things from the church counter. Another thing - the soviet era destroyed literally, completely, physically wiped off most of the churches from the face of the country.
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| lovefootball) | Date: Saturday, 23.10.2010, 21:43 | Message # 59 |
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Dean
Group: Users
Messages: 662
Status: Offline
| Agree. Even clergymen admit there are such problems in church. For example, a lot of people want to work there just for money. Teacher, do you mean that real church and online one are like two parallel worlds and the problems of one of them reflect the difficulties of another one?
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| Former-Teacher | Date: Monday, 25.10.2010, 09:51 | Message # 60 |
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Dean
Group: Admins
Messages: 504
Status: Offline
| I don't know...I just feel that it is a possible extension of religious practices...I feel that it doesn't downgrade our conventional belief systems....I feel it builds on our belief values... I feel it's a replica of human desire to communicate on such matters in varied forms and ways...
When I hear people say that they don't understand why others do not agree with their opinions, I usually react with a question like "Is it the matter of agreement or the matter of mutual discussion?" "is this about who is right or wrong or a chance to enrich each other with other views and understandings that may be good for others?" When I started the discussion on Online Church, I didn't have a definitie position or opinion. I wanted and still want to exchange new visions, new insights, new guesses, to 'upload' and "upgrade' our value systems and belief practices, or just to give yourself a chance to understand that faith lives with us and develops with us.
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